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Thread: Best South African Player?

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    South Africa Best South African Player?

    Who is the best South African Player Internationally & Domestically? Also how do you this player(s) would fair if he came to North America to play. My Guess would be a 3rd line ECHL player at best.

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    I'd say the kid Reinecke probably, who's currently playing in the OPJHL.

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    IHF Member Aldair's Avatar
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    There was some defend. Brendan Schulz also played in Canada.

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    According to me, Allan Verwey is the best player in South Africa domestically and internationally! He's also in the Hockey Hall of Fame! I think if he plays in the NHL he will probably play 2nd or 3rd line!

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    IHF Member Geoff's Avatar
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    I've never heard of the guy but I'm sure that if he could have been a 2nd or 3rd line player in the NHL, he would.

    The discussion of the best player ever born in South Africa begins and ends with one man: Olaf Kolzig.

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Olaf Kolzig is German, not South African. He's never even held a South African passport.
    Verwey is good for a South African, but I'll be honest in saying that when I saw him at teh Division III tournament in Dundalk last year, he wouldn't even compare with the guys who'd have a 50/50 chance of cracking an ECHL roster (Luxembourg goaltender Welter, Irish sniper Mark Morrison, South African youngster Josh Reinecke, New Zealand power forward Laurie Horo)...
    Verwey might have been good enough to crack a pro lineup if he'd grown up in stronger developmental leagues (in fact, there's no doubt of it, his athleticism is certainly not lacking) but with where he is now, and where he would have come from in terms of development and talent, no chance of seeing him in the NHL, or any other North American pro league.

    I stand by what I said: top South African right now is probably Josh Reinecke, and he's got the potential to be still better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Olaf Kolzig is German, not South African. He's never even held a South African passport.
    The Freakish One did say SA-born, so technically he is right. The NHL would agree as when opening day rosters are announced and they provide a list of players by country, he is the only player in South Africa, much the same as Robin Regher in Brazil and Dany Heatley for Germany.

    You surprised me a bit Steigs, no mention of Kiwi Josh Hay in the ECHL-potentials? I recall you were impressed by him.

    Zilla is completely inelgible for South Africa though, but I have a suspicion he would get them out of Div III if he could play.
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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KazakhEagles View Post
    You surprised me a bit Steigs, no mention of Kiwi Josh Hay in the ECHL-potentials? I recall you were impressed by him..
    At this point in time, no.
    That might change, but I wasn't all that impressed with his penchant for ducking low and taking out the knees of defending players as he passed them on the rush. It's a rugby move that even American Football rules forbid (or at least frown upon), and is especially dangerous against the boards when a player is lining you up for a hit and you duck down and take out his knees.

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    South Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    Olaf Kolzig is German, not South African. He's never even held a South African passport.
    Verwey is good for a South African, but I'll be honest in saying that when I saw him at teh Division III tournament in Dundalk last year, he wouldn't even compare with the guys who'd have a 50/50 chance of cracking an ECHL roster (Luxembourg goaltender Welter, Irish sniper Mark Morrison, South African youngster Josh Reinecke, New Zealand power forward Laurie Horo)...
    Verwey might have been good enough to crack a pro lineup if he'd grown up in stronger developmental leagues (in fact, there's no doubt of it, his athleticism is certainly not lacking) but with where he is now, and where he would have come from in terms of development and talent, no chance of seeing him in the NHL, or any other North American pro league.

    I stand by what I said: top South African right now is probably Josh Reinecke, and he's got the potential to be still better.
    Josh Reinecke dont even live in SA anymore! last year was the first time we even heard that there is even someone like that! Josh and his brothers live in the Us or Canada im not sure... playing some league which is obviously better then SA's league so yeah he wil be a better player than Alan but then Alan on the other is much older than Josh and you can go look it up, Alan also picked a few injuries the last few years which takes long for him to recover from like for instance his knee! So if you take all that away then Alan is a better player the Josh I mean Alan's jersey is even in the HAll Of Fame for South Africa

    So yeah just thought ill send this
    later

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    The Hockey Hall Of Fame has a jersey from every country that's participated in IIHF competition. Whos it is doesn't matter as much as the logo that's on the front.

    As for Josh Reinecke, he's South African born, Canadian trained, but apparently holds a single citizenship and it's not Canadian.
    I'll be honest, while injuries may have had something to do with it, Dayle Reinecke (the youngest of the three brothers) was already at about the same level of skill as Verwey, and is still playing midget hockey. Anyway, that's a long discussion, but the fact of the matter is that while Verwey is certainly a good player for South Africa, I think he may have been surpassed now by another South African, and I still stand by what I said that he would have in his prime been hard-pressed to make any North American professional team. Verwey's biggest talents that I saw are his hockey sense (he's pretty smart with the puck) and his leadership ability. He's still good on the ice (top-defense-pairing for RSA), but to have your top player also be a dressing room leader is key, and that's the one important thing that I thought Verwey brought to an otherwise younger RSA team in '07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    The Hockey Hall Of Fame has a jersey from every country that's participated in IIHF competition. Whos it is doesn't matter as much as the logo that's on the front.

    As for Josh Reinecke, he's South African born, Canadian trained, but apparently holds a single citizenship and it's not Canadian.
    I'll be honest, while injuries may have had something to do with it, Dayle Reinecke (the youngest of the three brothers) was already at about the same level of skill as Verwey, and is still playing midget hockey. Anyway, that's a long discussion, but the fact of the matter is that while Verwey is certainly a good player for South Africa, I think he may have been surpassed now by another South African, and I still stand by what I said that he would have in his prime been hard-pressed to make any North American professional team. Verwey's biggest talents that I saw are his hockey sense (he's pretty smart with the puck) and his leadership ability. He's still good on the ice (top-defense-pairing for RSA), but to have your top player also be a dressing room leader is key, and that's the one important thing that I thought Verwey brought to an otherwise younger RSA team in '07.
    Okay yeah I understand what you are saying but still the Reinecke's are only born in SA, and raised in Canada so obviously they will get more experience then us! Our SA league are really pathetic, actually it's a joke so in comparing to them, yes they will be better on some level though... but if they were raised is SA and played SA hockey their whole life they wouldn't have been where they are now.... so the only SA thing the Reinecke's have is they are born here thats about it and Im not saying they are not good players, well none of us know except for the guys who went overseas with, Im sure they are awesome players obviously because they live in Canada but the fact stands that they are not really SA players... although hehe

    anyways hope you understand where im coming from with this...

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Fore sure mate. They're SA players in that they have made the choice to play for RSA. Mostly I'd think that comes from Gareth (the eldest of the three) who actually did take up ice hockey in South Africa before moving to Canada. The other two never played in SA, but sort of followed their brother's lead on playing for the country.
    It was kind of weird for me, flying into Dublin and actually seeing these three guys (who happened to be on teh same connection flight as me from London) grabbing hockey gear (to the curious and surprised looks of every Irishman in the airport) hahaha, I got to talk to the guys for a bit before the rest of the team showed upand we hopped the bus to Dundalk.
    Good times....

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    haha thats awesome! i think 3 bothers can be a handful! lol

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Well, the Reinecke bros definitely were a handful to play against. Unfortunately the South African team's depth just wasn't enough to deal with a strengthened Irish roster and top-flight Luxembourg goaltending (let's face it, the goaltending is what kept LUX in contention for promition right up until that shootout, and then stopped two of the three shots).

    Aside from the first-unit of Dayle Reinecke and Alan Verwey on D, and Gareth Reinecke, Josh Reinecke and Mike Edwards on forward, there was a significant dropoff... those guys played huge minutes and hte other lines at times just couldn't get back into the flow of the game when they did get on the ice.
    Valadas impressed me at times, Saffy too, and Birrell and Strydom looked like they could become long-time mainstays on the South African roster, but there were times when the guys on the ice just looked lost. Especially when the second or third lines got caught against the top NZL or IRL lines. Mark Morrison and Gareth Martin for Ireland were especially deadly when they got paired against a second unit from just about anyone.

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    I forgot to mention...
    The Senior team from last year was not our best guys because some of the best players did not go because of work, it is too expensive etc, i think you get why so it was mostly the guys who could have played.. so at the end there were people short so thats why they got the Reinecke's somehow!

    Jack Valadas is one of our good players whose got a lot of potential in him, I love the way he plays and I certainly look up to him cause im still a much younger player then him but this year i moved to the seniors league officially so i will be playing against him!
    As for Charles Strydom and Cameron Birrell im playing with them on a line in seniors, have been playing with the in U18's too but not that much! Cameron is every year on hockey camp in Toronto, he plays for the Toronto Rattlers not sure what team but yeah he gets his experience there but he is a really good player for Charles as well! I can type pages about all the players cause we do really have alot of players with lots of potential, we just dont have all the necessary coaching but yeah we all still love the game!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steigs View Post
    At this point in time, no.
    That might change, but I wasn't all that impressed with his penchant for ducking low and taking out the knees of defending players as he passed them on the rush. It's a rugby move that even American Football rules forbid (or at least frown upon), and is especially dangerous against the boards when a player is lining you up for a hit and you duck down and take out his knees.
    ducking? it's not a rugby move, i'm afraid you're wrong - plus I can't see any hockey player just tackling people on the ice if that's what your referring to - at least they wouldn't remain for a long time in the game

    players tackle low and intelligently in rugby with their head to the side and using the arms to wrap in contact - it's much safer for both players involved in the contact, especially safer than the insane hitting that occurs in AF where people just head-tackle people front-on, plus tackle really high withe the objective of knocking people's blocks off in the human train wreck involving players that just stepped out of a 50 cent music video...

    if anything should be frowned upon it's gridiron with its antics

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    IHF Staff Steigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Göran View Post
    ducking? it's not a rugby move, i'm afraid you're wrong - plus I can't see any hockey player just tackling people on the ice if that's what your referring to - at least they wouldn't remain for a long time in the game

    players tackle low and intelligently in rugby with their head to the side and using the arms to wrap in contact
    What you're describing is basically what I saw the kid do, with the exception of the contact, which as often as not ended up being along hte lines of shoulder-to-knee or just above the knee. When he did this about a foot from the boards, on at least two separate occasions the checkers were sent tumbling face-first airborne into the boards, and luckilyneither was maimed.

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    well he definitely should be taken to the side and explained the art of contact and checking in hockey, perhaps while being put in the cooler/sin bin for a while

    i agree with you that type of play has no place in hockey and should receive zero tolerance

    while definitely out of place in the rink however rugby tackling is not a hazard on the field but an effective method of contact - and isn't dangerous when performed correctly, well not anymore than taking a big clean check in hockey against the boards

    what can you say the kiwis probably think they are lining up as all blacks and scrumming down

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    Hi id like to make you guys all clear on something. I have bene playing in RSA for a long time. Riaan if you do not of the Reinecke brothers then you clearly have been not been around for long enought to be making comments on the best players. Undoubtadly Alan is on the of the best players in RSA but you have the likes of Zayne Du plessis, Mike Edwards, Burton Matthews. they are all unreal players.. Steigs i think i met you in ireland, just to clarify what you were saying, the reinecke family was actually the family that go me involved in ice hockey, they were all trained in RSA and played for several south african teams before leaving the country to Canada. Josh and MAcky and Dayle were always talented. We have a had a few other guys wo have played top leagues in Europe and Canada aswell... So what you were sayin that they had never played befoe going to Canada is not treu. Most of the good guys who still play were coached either by Canadian coaches at the club called Canam or by an ex Croatian legen Igor Zajec at Krugersdorp....
    Riaan alans shirt has nothing to do with him being th best player... He is a legend in SA ice hockey. In his prime he was unbelievable player before his knees started affecting his playing.. YOu cannot make jusgment on one tournament of who the best player is... Did any of you watch RSA in bulgaria, mexico or Lithuania?? when we had a team that consited of the best players??

    Riaan the renicke bros were not selected because of injuroies and financial implications of he team.. They are hands down three of the best players this country will ever see.. and deserve to be in any team...

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    Reineckes

    Riaan do you actually have any idea what you are talking about??? LEt me clarify the situation for all of you.. The reineckes (all 3 of them) were bor, raised and trained in RSA.. they played for a team called Canam. Riaan if last year was the first year you have heard of the reineckes then you clearly have not been around hockey for long enough.. Il agree with steigs Alans shirt is in the hall of fame due to the country. he is alegend in his own right but not the best player anymore.. We have players such as Zayne Du Plessis, Burton Matthews and Mike Edwards... maybe do a bit of research and you will see.... Mike played in croatia and burton played in canada and croatia... Before you say the Reineckes only got chosen because people couldnt go you should go do some homework on them and you will see your facts are completely wrong....

    Steigs you were in ireland with me, i was the goalie...you should know the reineckes were all born in SA.. They rpresented RSA long before they even thought of moving to Canada. The 3 Reineckes have always been on top of the game in SA... Joshes family was the family that got me involved in ice hockey 10years ago...

    If anyone wants to talk facts please feel free and lets do so...

    Just by the way Riaan Charles and cameron are good players in their own age group, they are not strong enough when it comes to playing international senior teams....

    So to end it all off.. at the end of the Day the Reineckes are and always will be SOuth Africans....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguySA View Post
    Riaan do you actually have any idea what you are talking about??? LEt me clarify the situation for all of you.. The reineckes (all 3 of them) were bor, raised and trained in RSA.. they played for a team called Canam. Riaan if last year was the first year you have heard of the reineckes then you clearly have not been around hockey for long enough.. Il agree with steigs Alans shirt is in the hall of fame due to the country. he is alegend in his own right but not the best player anymore.. We have players such as Zayne Du Plessis, Burton Matthews and Mike Edwards... maybe do a bit of research and you will see.... Mike played in croatia and burton played in canada and croatia... Before you say the Reineckes only got chosen because people couldnt go you should go do some homework on them and you will see your facts are completely wrong....

    Steigs you were in ireland with me, i was the goalie...you should know the reineckes were all born in SA.. They rpresented RSA long before they even thought of moving to Canada. The 3 Reineckes have always been on top of the game in SA... Joshes family was the family that got me involved in ice hockey 10years ago...

    If anyone wants to talk facts please feel free and lets do so...

    Just by the way Riaan Charles and cameron are good players in their own age group, they are not strong enough when it comes to playing international senior teams....

    So to end it all off.. at the end of the Day the Reineckes are and always will be SOuth Africans....
    Okay you right no doubt cause you have been playing longer than me and you are playing seniors for quite some time now! on the Allan situation there are players that are better then Allan like Burton, Mike, Jack, George and all those guys and i really look up to those guys, i don't know the cape town guys really... anyways i said Allan cause he has a lot more of experience on ice and he can still play with those guys like Burton etc... but i wont argue that they aren't better cause they are...

    And for most of us we didnt know who the Reinecke's were...

    Oh yeah by the way keep up the good work you and your brother are great goalies!

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    Big Guy, I appreciate the clarification.
    I remember talking to the Reinecke boys... the two eldest had learned the game in SA, though I do remember Dayle mentioning that he'd never played in SA.
    As for Alan Verwey, I can only go by what I've seen of him, near the end of his career. So I will believe what you tell me of him
    I'm not sure if I neglected to mention Mike Edwards in my earlier posts, but he certainly was a good skater and strong checker, with good hands to boot.

    And you're right, it's impossible to say who the best all-time players are from a single tournament, I can only really judge who the best player is at the moment, and then only of the players that I've seen play. That's what I tried to do, and I apologize if I gave the impression that I knew more than what I've seen.

    Could you name for me some of the RSA players who've had European pro experience?
    I've actually talked with my real estate agent, who played pro hockey in Europe, and also played in South Africa during the mid-70's in what was (he tells me) pretty much a foreign-player-filled league. He told me that there were at the time only a few South African players of the calibre to compete in this pro or semi-pro South African league, and I was wondering if you'd know any of those players' names that I could surprise Ed with?
    Last edited by Steigs; 31-01-2008 at 01:13.

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    o guys hope i didnt offend anyone but just wanted to clear it up Dont get me wrong Alan is a fantastic player in his own right.... Steigs Dayle did play here, he represented SA before they left to Canada on a few aoccasions..Me josh and dayle represented SA when we went to Canada to play in the tournament in Quebec during Feb..
    Yeah back in the day there were lots of foreigners playing here. at one stage we had imports in every team, that was about 6 years ago.. we are trying to sort the league out again but its going slow and is astrugle without sponsors.. The Mike played in Europe, Chris Jeavons, burton Matthews, David Berger, Kevin and Gregg Donde, but they were all round my age..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguySA View Post
    The Mike played in Europe, Chris Jeavons, burton Matthews, David Berger, Kevin and Gregg Donde, but they were all round my age..
    The same David Berger who shared the net with you in Romania 2006? There's a video of that tournament online with you in it, have you seen it?

    Welcome aboard also, always nice to have national teamers (and anybody from Div II-III countries). Perhaps you can remind your brother to come back (ashboe21)?
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    yeah its the same guy..he played in america or about 3 years i think..yeah i have seen the video.. its from bulgaria when we were there 2 years ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguySA View Post
    yeah its the same guy..he played in america or about 3 years i think..yeah i have seen the video.. its from bulgaria when we were there 2 years ago
    Ah yes, you are right. I remember seeing too much of Romania in that video, even though Bulgaria was probably in every video. My bad.
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    This is in: Olaf Kolzig just stepped down (retired) from hockey. Willie Coetzee (18 yrs) born Johannesburg, South Africa, trained in Canada, just signed a 3 year entry level deal with the Detroit Red Wings of the NHL. http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=499030

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    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyGuru3 View Post
    This is in: Olaf Kolzig just stepped down (retired) from hockey. Willie Coetzee (18 yrs) born Johannesburg, South Africa, trained in Canada, just signed a 3 year entry level deal with the Detroit Red Wings of the NHL. http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=499030

    it would be really great for South African hockey if he could play for their national team someday!!.. if he even has SA citizenship that is. I dont know alot about the rules to be honest, but would be neat nonetheless

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    Detroit Coetzee

    Quote Originally Posted by xunearthhxcx View Post
    it would be really great for South African hockey if he could play for their national team someday!!.. if he even has SA citizenship that is. I dont know alot about the rules to be honest, but would be neat nonetheless
    Unfortunately not, Canadian citizen now......most of his family back in RSA still, grandpa, grandmas, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews......too bad hey!! Would've been great!!

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